The Wreck, Section 3

05-07-2008, 03:55 PM – Belding

Amazing work.
Zac

05-16-2008, 10:38 PM – Cal Haines

Quote Originally Posted by beckley23View Post
The sled has been a real learning experience. …
… I was also disappointed with the flatness, the sled seemed to be following the contour, although flattening it out considerably. There more to scrape than I was expecting, but a lot less than no sled. This operation had to rethought before I got to the front V way.
Harry
Harry,
Is it possible that one side of the sled is being slightly lifted by the tool? That is, could the insert be supporting much of the weight of that side of the sled?
Cal

05-17-2008, 01:15 AM – beckley23

That is a real possibility, and I think it was confirmed when I did the inside face of the front V way, a couple of weeks ago. After I did the regular cuts, I set the tool for a lighter depth of cut, and the face indicated much straighter.
Just a little update.
As things would have it, one of the jobs I’ve been running for years, got redesigned this past week, and the job got set-up on the J&L turret lathe. Part of the tooling, the slide tool, was on the sled. The result was that the outside face got shaped/planed today, the slide tool is now on the J&L, and this sequence is done. All that remains to be done on the bed is to scrape both faces of the front V way, and then go back and fine “tune” everything, if needed.
There is a problem with the inside face, and I noticed the same problem when I did the CK a few years ago. The heat treat does not extend all the way to the bottom of the face; on the CK it was about half way, on this EE it stops about 3/16″ from the bottom. This was a problem scraping the CK, but the cutter on the sled really dug in on the EE, and I don’t know if it will get any better with scraping. I’ll have to post a picture and a sketch later, illustrating this, but it runs the entire length of the way.
My overall impression of the sled is; It’s not perfect, and I wasn’t expecting it be, but it sure saved a lot scraping time. It was worth the time to build it. Whether it would be advantageous on a soft bed, I can’t say, but a hard bed, definitely.
Harry  

05-17-2008, 04:58 AM – rimcanyon

My overall impression of the sled is; It’s not perfect, and I wasn’t expecting it be, but it sure saved a lot scraping time.
Harry, if you had to do it again would you consider mounting a grinder on the sled, something like a Dumore or Precise hand grinder or a small toolpost grinder?
-Dave

05-17-2008, 07:51 PM – beckley23

Dave,
There are too many problems with grinding where I have this machine located, plus other related problems. Also I don’t the sled is rigid or accurate enough for grinding.
Harry

07-14-2008, 08:56 PM – beckley23

Well after 2 months I can make to the front door without having to do a zig-zag course. I seem to have a small window of time to get something done on the “Wreck”.
I finally got started scraping the inside face of the front V way today, and after about 4 cycles the face was within .00025″ parallel to the inside ways, although the percentage of bearing area has to be much improved from what I’m seeing in spotting with the straight edge. I mounted an DTI on the sled, another use for it, and took advantage. It was the sled or the TS base; the sled was easier, it’s already been prepped.
The problem of the soft area of the face may present a problem when I start to fit the carriage, I don’t think I’m going to be able to scrape it away. I’ll try and get some pictures to illustrate this problem.
Harry

07-15-2008, 08:30 PM – beckley23

As I got into the scraping today the .00025″ parallelism turned into .0006″ approx, but the bearing area is improving. This proved to be a real head scratcher because I was seeing indicator readings that didn’t agree with the straight edge spotting, but I think I found the problem and will know more when I resume scraping.
The soft area of the inside face of the front V way is shown below. I don’t think you’ll have any problem seeing it, but the tool definitely dug in. I think this is indicative of a rigidity problem with the sled, or perhaps it can be traced to the positive rake tool holder I used, or maybe a combination of both. In any event, I’m stuck with this situation, but I think things will work OK. I’m primarily worried about the width of the face and how it relates to the mating slide face of the carriage, and I won’t know until the carriage is finished. I’ve been checking dimensions of this EE’s carriage and looking at my other EE, it’s going to be close. I do have a remedy in mind to get rid of the unsightly “undercut” using the sled.
Harry

07-18-2008, 08:50 PM – beckley23

After screwing around with the parallelism issue off and on for 2 days, I set the straight edge up on blocks on the surface plate and indicated the spotting surface, and the cause of my problems was found. How the SE got out of straight, I can only guess. It could be residual stress relieving, the ambient temperature in the shop, etc., anyway the straight edge was corrected, took about an hour, but my window has closed for the time being. I’ve got to start making chips again.
Harry

07-19-2008, 01:10 PM – jeep534

Harry,
just a little encouragement I have been lurking and waiting. I do not believe i have the patience to scrape but I sure do enjoy reading about reconditioning machine tools. maybe at some point when I am traveling I would like to arrange to stop by. I live Just off of I 64 in WV. and have been through Louisville many times.
archie =) =) =)

12-17-2008, 01:03 AM – beckley23

Just a note to let you know that I haven’t abandoned the “Wreck”. It still sitting in the same spot in the shop. In between making chips, I’ve bought an addition for the shop which is taking a bit more time than anticipated, they always do, in this topic;
I have more need for the SE 60 than the EE at this time, so it is getting the attention.
Harry

01-17-2009, 09:48 PM – m.k.millwork

progress report (if any)?

Hey Harry,

Hope you are well. Have read the whole thread and was just wondering if you have gotten any further since your last post. Just curious.

Thanks Mark

01-18-2009, 12:56 AM – beckley23

The “Wreck” and Series 60 are machines not necessary to my operations until they go on line, and they get worked on when I don’t have paying jobs in the shop. I’ve been more fortunate, compared to other shops in the area, the last few months, and hopefully it will continue.

The SE 60 is getting the attention, when I have windows of opportunity to work on it, as I’ve run a repeat job that is ideal for it, about 4 or 5 times since it was moved into the shop. I’ve also got another repeat job that doesn’t run as often, that I just ran a large order, that would be easier on the SE 60. It’s the crank operated tailstock, both of these jobs require a lot of long TS movement for loading and unloading, that I’m after.

As my schedule stands now, I’ll be out of paying jobs about the middle to the end of next week, but that can change at any time.

This is just as disconcerting for me, as it is for the readers of these topics; the projects get drawn out over long periods of time, and each time I stop, I have to re-evaluate where I left off, sometimes it’s easy, others it takes a while.

About the “Wreck”;

There are about 3 days of work left to finish the bed, and then the progress should really pick up, but that comes after the SE 60 is up and running.

Harry

01-20-2009, 11:02 PM – m.k.millwork

thanks for the reply

Harry,

Thanks for the reply and update, I really enjoy checking out your work in this and other threads, amazing work and great pics.

Hope you get more work in soon

Mark

09-24-2009, 04:11 PM – beckley23

Well, after 14 months I’m finally able to get back to the “Wreck”.
I have tentively finished the inside face of the front V way, and got started on the outside face. The inside face seems to be within .0003″ parallel to the inside ways. It will be rechecked. In the picture I’m checking the parallelism, and the black dry marker sections are were the face needs a bit more attention.
Harry

09-24-2009, 04:37 PM – Steve in SoCal

Harry,
I can send you another 30″ bed if you are feeling ambitious. Could you show some detail of the base extension. I have to make something for my lathe and the pictures I have don’t give much on how it attaches or the profile of it.
Steve

09-24-2009, 04:46 PM – beckley23

Steve,
I’ll get you some pictures. The end of the base is machined for the extension which is screwed on. The are 2 drain holes, front and back and it is just as deep as the base casting on that end.
No, I’m not that ambitious.
Harry

09-25-2009, 03:27 PM – beckley23

Checking the outside face, about all that needs to be done is to improve the bearing area and the parallelism on the extreme TS end.

Steve- Here are the pictures of the base extension. It is attached to the base with 8 socket head cap screws.


Harry

09-25-2009, 05:42 PM – Steve in SoCal

Thank Harry,

Steve

09-28-2009, 04:12 PM – beckley23

Got done with the bed today. The indicator readings on the outside face showed a .0002″(maybe) movement for the entire length until the last 2 or 3″” at the TS end when it went to approx .0004″. I’ve been chasing that TS end for several cycles and made very little progress. I was also trying to improve the bearing area on the entire lower edge of the face. A check with an indicator mounted on a 1-2-3 block showed a difference of approx .0001″. Enough is enough. That bed is good.
Also mounted the headstock and ran some test bar checks, after checking the spotting between the bed and HS. The flat surfaces are spotting good, the inside V surfaces are spotting good, the outside V surfaces are OK. They’ll work, but the test bar checks said that possibly some corrections are necessary, especially for the horizontal readings. This will all be rechecked.

Harry

09-28-2009, 04:31 PM – Waterlogged

Harry:

First off, I’m absolutely floored by the amount and quality of work that you’ve put into the bed of your lathe. I hope it works out as well as planned.

Having said that,would do it again or pay to have it done next time?

09-29-2009, 11:46 AM – Cal Haines

Harry,

Did you make your own test bar?

Cal

09-29-2009, 03:12 PM – beckley23

I made that test 6 years ago for the 12″ CK. I think in the time since, the bar has done a slight contortion act, most likely since the trip back from one of the western states. The last user didn’t have any problems with it, at least he never said anything about problems.

Anyway, it’s about .0015″ out from what I could tell today, both on the “Wreck” and between centers on the CK. I could try and compensate for the error(s), but I think it would be easier to restore it, that way there shouldn’t be any guessing games.

There ain’t gonna be a next time. I’m out of room.
Harry

10-03-2009, 03:00 PM – beckley23

It’s been an interesting, but frustrating, time this week with the spindle test bar checks. I did re-turn the test bar and tried for several hours to get it seated correctly in the spindle, only to find several burrs/dings inside the bore. I did scrape the burrs/dings out, only to continuously find run out problems both radial and axial. I’m thinking trashed bearings. Finally, made a couple of calls, one to a member here. He suggested I change the rear bearing, that being the cheapest solution, to see if that changed the problem. I next called Monarch, and before I got half the symtoms out, Scott said trashed bearings and gave me price on new ones; ouch, a big, big ouch. I’ll have to think about that. Oh yes, he also made an offer on the lathe, but not enough to get me to start thinking along those lines.
I’m sitting at the bench, looking at the assembly drawing for the headstock, thinking that the rear angular contact bearings need preloading, where did the preload come from? Finally, it occurs to me that I need to completely assemble the end of the spindle with the sheaves and the bearing lock nut and washer, and that will take care of the rear angular contact bearing preload. And it also took care of the axial runout problems, and some of the radial runout problems. Moral of the story; have the spindle completely assembled before doing test bar checks.
There is still a problem with the test bar and its seating in the spindle, actually I think it’s more of a spindle problem than anything else. I finally had to figure the compensation for the test bar. I could get 0-0 readings at 0 and 180*, but at 90 and 270* the runouts were off setting. Right now, I’ll go with the spindle assuming it’s good, but I will make further checks after the lathe is completely assembled.

Electrical questions
The 2 Bobs were in today, doing their survey in prepration for getting the lathe under power. The lathe is currently wired for 440V, and has to be converted to 230V. They have figured out which transformers need to be rewired, but have a couple of questions.
1) Do the T6/T7 transformers hook up in parallel for 230V, apparently they are currently wired in series?
2) Not that it makes any difference, but why are the shunts present?
3) What is the temperature set point for the THS. This is the temperature sensor that mounts over the braking resistors. The one with the machine is shot and needs to be replaced. This is a ’64 Modular 5 HP machine.
Harry

10-03-2009, 10:35 PM – rke[pler

Quote Originally Posted by beckley23View Post
1) Do the T6/T7 transformers hook up in parallel for 230V, apparently they are currently wired in series?

Yep.

2) Not that it makes any difference, but why are the shunts present?

I think it’s to get the appropriate voltage output from the current transformers. The compensation circuit depends on that output.

3) What is the temperature set point for the THS. This is the temperature sensor that mounts over the braking resistors. The one with the machine is shot and needs to be replaced.

No idea at all, I’ve never seen that in person or on a schematic. Might want to call Monarch on that, it might have been a fairly late addition to the modular drive. (I can see it in the manual, looks like you should be able to source a replacement from the numbers on what you have, if you can list them someone should recognize it and name a replacement)

10-07-2009, 05:31 PM – beckley23

Solved the THS problem today. Tested the THS with an OHM meter yesterday, after cleaning it up, and the contact was closed. Borrowed a heat gun today, and it works. Now I have to replace the leads and reinstall it. IIRC, from my ’62 EE the THS is a Klixon brand, unfortunately I didn’t keep it when I converted that lathe to VFD. It went in the trash as did a few other pieces. From what I could determine of the identifying code on this one, it is C1391-7?-30?-B2?. The code is printed on the canister, and that is about as well as I could make out.
Harry

10-08-2009, 12:22 AM – peterh5322

In re T6/T7, I believe these are wired in parallel, either for 230 or for 460, with different part numbers required for each voltage.

The 230 transformers have taps for 200, 208, 216, 224 and 232.

The 460 transformers have taps for 400, 416, 432, 448 and 464.

As the other transformers are 230/460, and these are 230 only or 460 only, and as the consumption is about 330 V-A, an easy solution is to install a 500 V-A control transformer and to transform 460 to 230, or 230 to 460, just for these filament transformers.

10-15-2009, 04:50 PM – beckley23

Before any more reconditioning work, there are a few issues that will be attended to. One -I need to get power on the machine, which will be when the 2 Bobs return to do their magic, two- this machine is getting a cosmetic job, and three- there are some repairs to be done to the apron.
When I remounted the gearbox, I found out why the spindle sheaves where removed. The gearbox isn’t coming off, or going back on, with the sheaves on. It seems that the upper box, with the spindle stud gear, etc, attached to the gearbox interferes with the large spindle sheave, and this box can only be removed with the entire gearbox assembly out of the machine.
A couple of pictures.
I’ll have to check into this repair that the previous owners did. Apparently they broke the start/stop hub , and used a SHCS to effect the repair. I’ll also remove the rest switch assembly to clean it up. There was a lot crap crammed in there, no telling what else is in there.

 

While sanding the spindle bearing retainer casting, I noticed a hole, possibly for drainage, in the casting. I checked my other EE, and sure enough it has the hole also. It’s not shown on the cross ectional view in the parts list, and my gear head Monarchs don’t have one either. These are “Modular” machines, ’62 and ’64, do the older machines have the hole?

Harry

10-15-2009, 07:16 PM – rke[pler

I’ve got the same drain hole on my ’56. From the positioning it appears to be there to drain the labyrinth seal.

10-15-2009, 07:52 PM – clocker2

Just checked my 1944 Round dial 10EE and sure enough, it has the hole too.

Jeff

10-17-2009, 12:59 PM – beckley23

The 2 Bob’s were in today to work their magic, with help from Russ Kepler, on getting the lathe under power. No major difficulties were encountered, IMO, I’m sure the 2 Bob’s have a different opinion about this, but the end result is the motor does run. There are some areas that need attention, mainly the QSD, the starters are very noisy, and I think the C3J tube needs a new socket; there was a bit jiggling to get the tube to function. As Peter mentioned, they had to install a transformer on the T6 & 7 transformers to boost the voltage to 460 to get the C16J’s to work. Also, the tube warm up timer doesn’t seem to work properly. I’m sure there will be some other minor glitches that will show up in time, but right now the electrics are functioning. My hat is off to the 2 Bob’s and Russ.
Now, I’ll have to get new drive belts mounted and the headstock lubricated, to see if any of the above changes.
Harry

10-17-2009, 04:01 PM – rke[pler

Quote Originally Posted by beckley23 View Post
As Peter mentioned, they had to install a transformer on the T6 & 7 transformers to boost the voltage to 460 to get the C16J’s to work.

I thought that yours were in series for 460, wiring them in parallel would have worked for 230. Since they actually were in parallel for 460 they really wouldn’t work if wired in series. I should never give electrical advice before my first cup of coffee…

Also, the tube warm up timer doesn’t seem to work properly.

When you have a chance please post a picture of the contactors. If yours is the model I’m thinking of the 1TR timer is the boxy thing to the right of the field acceleration relay. You should be able to buy a straight replacement.

I’m sure there will be some other minor glitches that will show up in time, but right now the electrics are functioning. My hat is off to the 2 Bob’s and Russ.
Now, I’ll have to get new drive belts mounted and the headstock lubricated, to see if any of the above changes.
Harry

Glad that you got it going. I like the thyratron drives, smooth and powerful.

10-17-2009, 05:52 PM – peterh5322

“I thought that yours were in series for 460, wiring them in parallel would have worked for 230. Since they actually were in parallel for 460 they really wouldn’t work if wired in series.

The power doesn’t divide equally across the two loads (T6 and T7).

Although the ac load on the transformers are conducting 100 percent of the time, the dc which passes through each transformer is confined to 50 percent of each ac cycle, with one conducting during 0-180 degrees and the other during 180-360 degrees.

If the machine is 460, but your power is 230, then you must use a 230-to-460 transformer to drive T6 and T7.

If the machine is 230, but your power is 460, then you must use a 460-to-230 transformer to drive T6 and T7.

The required capacity is about 165 V-A, so a 200 to 500 V-A control transformer is sufficient.

“I should never give electrical advice before my first cup of coffee …”

Always good advice.

10-17-2009, 08:06 PM – rke[pler

Quote Originally Posted by peterh5322 View Post

The power doesn’t divide equally across the two loads (T6 and T7).

Although the ac load on the transformers are conducting 100 percent of the time, the dc which passes through each transformer is confined to 50 percent of each ac cycle, with one conducting during 0-180 degrees and the other during 180-360 degrees.

What power are you talking about here? The secondaries are independent and power the filaments and serve as the cathodes for the C16Js. The C16Js can had connected cathodes and connected anodes (and, in fact, do) with no trouble. It seems to me to be perfectly feasable to run 230V transformers in series for 460V operation.

10-30-2009, 04:12 PM – beckley23

Since my last I’ve been getting the lathe prepped for painting in between running the money jobs.
The following picture was taken shortly after my last post. It is the temporary set up for the .5KVA transformer to boost the the 240 to 480 for the C16J’s. Will most likely find a permanent home in the coolant pump compartment, the pump was beyond hope and has been scrapped by Bob G. It was to far gone for him to even try repairing it.

Found this flanged bushing, on the thread shifter shaft, last year when I took the lathe apart, and paid it no mind, that completely locked out the threading capability. Sure enough, after checking the assembly views, the bushing wasn’t there. It’s been removed, and the lathe now has threading capability. I suspect the original owners had this bushing made to prevent threading, when they found a worn out leadscrew; but I don’t think they knew about the keyless apron worm gear, which rendered the power feed capabilities useless. What they wound up with is a lathe that could only be used for the most basic operations, not a good thing in a manufacturing shop.

Harry

11-03-2009, 04:55 PM – beckley23

Default Watching Paint Dry

While watching the paint dry on the base and the lathe, it dawned on me that the start/stop switch lever didn’t work correctly when we were testing the electricals a couple of weeks ago. I checked my other EE, and the parts sheet; the handle is spring loaded, plus the end of the handle has rounded corners where they should be square.
Pulled the the hub and handle assembly off to do some investigation.
For starters, I couldn’t get the set screw that locks the handle’s swivel pin loose, and had to forcefully drive it out. Once the handle was out, I could see the end of a 3/8″ pin in the hub, that normally should have fallen out, but due to solidified oil, and crud, the pin wasn’t moving. It also had a 5/16″ cross hole drilled in it for the socket head cap screw that held the stem on. Remember from a previous picture that was a repair. The hub is a very awkward part to hold, but a mill vise took care of that problem. I was able to drive the pin down approx 1/8″ into a blind hole, but getting it back out, that presented a problem. Idea number 1 was to remove the rotation stop pin, which explains the 9/64″ hole in the bottom of the hub, with the idea to drill a small hole from the bottom to drive the pin out. Then I looked at the location of the pin with respect to the width of the hub, and the geometry of the hub, and quickly tossed that idea. Next idea was to drill a hole in the pin itself from the exposed end, in the top of the hub, and try tapping a hole in the pin for a screw. Got the hole in, but it cost me drill bit drilling a hardened dowel pin, but I did get a hole through to the cross hole. I’m thinking this isn’t looking good; you’ve got a dowel pin with a 5/16″ cross hole and 9/64″ through hole, and the darn pin is partially blocking the hole in the hub, and it’s stuck. Well maybe I can get a long drift pin through the hole in the hub, and use a BFH on the drift pin shank, and pound it down. It worked. Then I was able to get a smaller drift pin at an angle through the hub’s cross hole, and drive the stuck pin out. That worked, and the stuck pin came out, in 2 pieces.
Now, I have to repair a botched repair, mainly the broken stem and hub. That’s tomorrows problem.
Headstock switch lever assembly. L to R; rotation limit pin, hub, spring, dowel pin that was drilled through for the SHCS and boke at the weak out when being forcefully driven out, and the handle. Note thr ounded end on the rectangular section. That will have to be built up with weld or make a new part. The rounding causes problems with the lever centering the drum switch at the off position.

The back side of the hub and the broken stem. You can see the end of the threaded sleeve that orginal owners made for the SHCS.

Harry

11-04-2009, 04:33 PM – beckley23

In regard to my statements about the flanged bushing on the feed/thread selector in post #114, I was wrong. The bushing does, indeed, need to be on the shaft. It acts a spacer, and keeps the shaft from axially moving. All I had to do was take a look at how the knob worked on my other EE, and I could have saved a couple of hours. Instead, I was chasing my tail. The spacer is on the parts sectional drawing, but it isn’t flanged, and that drawing is very hard to discern details.
The problem was that the shaft had some burrs and the knob was sticking and pulling the shaft out, without the spacer in place. The only thing that pulls out is the knob, and it is rotated to the proper selection and it should go back in over the index pin, as I discovered on my other EE. Anyway, after I finally got my act together, this assembly is working properly, as is the interlock, which doesn’t work on my other EE(I think a part was removed, haven’t been in there, and don’t intend to get in there).
There was a problem with the LH index hole in the knob, it would not go over the index pin. I enlarged the hole with a bur to approx 3/8″ from .265″. This took some time, as I couldn’t tell which side of the hole was off. Here’s a picture, the problem hole is on the right.

Harry

11-05-2009, 02:41 AM – Marcibb

WOW I can not wait to see the finish project

11-08-2009, 05:13 PM – beckley23

Marcibb- Have patience. I’m getting there, but this is a slow process.

I got the new parts for the switch handle and hub assembly finished the other day. The new stem is made from TGP 1045, mainly because I had a drop collecting dust, the handle end is 4140PH, and the rest of parts are 1018. I had to drill the frozen set screw out and re-tapped the hole. The “new” spring came from the scrap box, and is a little stronger than the original. I also added a set screw in the side of the hub as insurance for the light press fit of the stem.

Harry

11-13-2009, 04:54 PM – beckley23

Got started on the apron today. Took it apart today, and thought you would enjoy a few pictures. For those of you who think that the EE apron is a lot easier than a Series 60’s; at least I can my hands inside the 60, the weight is another story. I guess there are trade offs.
So far, I’ve found a couple of frozen bearings, quite a bit of rust, and a lot of sludge. The first picture is the apron oil pump and cam follower bracket. Note the weld repair on one side of the bracket. Sometimes I wonder how this stuff happens, but this time I’m stumped, and I’m not sure I want to know. The apron sight glass is just behind the pump. That’s the next picture.

The sight glass, in all the Monarch’s I’ve seen, have cork gaskets on each side of the gauge plate, this one didn’t. Instead it was RTV’ed on each side then installed. It’s function was rendered useless. There was no way that oil could get into viewing area, and I’ve got feeling that this apron ran dry for some time. Note all the squeezed out RTV.

This is one of the gears from the handwheel assembly, it’s also one of the cleaner apron gears. I’ve been into a lot lathe aprons, and this has got to be one of the nastier ones. I did a Hendey apron a few years ago that was absolutely filled with plastic turnings. I was amazed that it still worked.

Harry

11-14-2009, 02:22 AM – DaveE907

Haven’t kept up post by post with your progress Harry, it’s fascinating to check in every few weeks. Got to #114 about the flanged bushing and thought I could help. Kept going and learned you sorted it out. Glad to hear it.

“Have patience. I’m getting there, but this is a slow process.”

Your words resonate here. Bringing back a machine worthy of being rightly called a “Wreck” is a quest of dedication, skill, learning, and perseverance. Your efforts are an inspiration for those who haven’t accomplished such a daunting project.

The apron innards are a fright but under the patina of crap are the makings of reclaimed good parts. You know that, others might not.

Nice work on the switch handle and hub assembly. 

11-16-2009, 04:55 PM – beckley23 

Finally got a hard look at the apron innards today, and underneath all the crap, it’s still crap. There are 2 compound gears and 3 spur gears that need replacing. One of the spur gears I knew about when I pulled the apron at the start of this project, but the rest are for dire emergency use only. The rack pinion gear 15T 14DP, that I knew about, that one is worn, and still usable. I could get by using it, but I rather replace it now, instead of having to pull the apron in the future. The ones in the picture below are beyond use. I tried to get a close up of the tooth faces, but it was too blurred. The tooth faces are so bad that these gears will probably consume each other in short order, that’s how rough they are. Rusty, I can tolerate; rough, pitted faces that look like cutters are another story. My dilemma is determining the most economical way to do this. I can fabricate the compounds buying a couple stock spurs, making what I don’t have and buying 2 cutters; or I can make all of them, buying 3 cutters. That part is a wash, but I have a future project making change gears for my #2 K&T’s DH’s lead attachment for which I pretty much need a few set of cutters, and hence the quandry.
Anyway the gears in the picture are all part of the internal feed transmission from the feed rod to the cross feed clutch.

Harry

11-18-2009, 01:33 AM – Lanza 

If you were to make all them gears with a rotary milling cutter, how are you going to make the compound gears? I thought you would need a gear shaping machine. I can’t really tell how much space is between the coumpound gears.

11-18-2009, 03:55 PM – beckley23

Each gear of the compound gears will be made separately, and then welded together. I’ve got to check with the fellow that does microscopic welding to make sure this is feasible. He’s in Las Vegas right now. I hope he wins, maybe he’ll be inclined to take it easy on the pricing.
I’ve also heard about a few possible sources for the gears that I’ll check into, although I’m more inclined to make them.On another issue, I need a dimension in the apron pump assembly, if anybody has their pump out for servicing. The dimension I need is from the shoulder to the bottom of the ball end of the “piston” for the pump’s bronze cam follower. The ball has eroded away, or was badly repaired, as you can tell from the picture below. I believe it’s about 1.632″, but would like confirmation.

Harry

11-18-2009, 06:20 PM – Mcandrew1894

It would appear that there is meat enough to bolt/pin the new gears together as an assembly and cutting them seperately….the more labor intensive part will be rounding the ends of the teeth.

I suppose they are hardened ….

Dave

11-18-2009, 06:35 PM – Gillm

Harry,
I’ve got my 1950 apron completely disassembled right now. I’m reading 1.624 from the shoulder to the end of the ball. There is some wear on the end- your 1.632 is probably spot on.
Gill McLane
Navarre, FL

11-19-2009, 04:02 PM – beckley23

Dave,
The gears are heat treated about as hard as 4140 PH, which is what I’m planning to make them out of, if I don’t find an alternative source. To me, the intensive part is the teeth cutting, the tooth rounding is bench work, at least for me it is. It won’t be pretty, but it will suffice.Gill,
Thanks for the confirmation, that’s what I thought it was, but this lathe is so screwed up, who knows.
Harry

11-19-2009, 08:58 PM – Peter Miles

Are these gears still available from Monarch?

11-19-2009, 09:06 PM – DaveE907

Torque loads on the coupled gears are well within the capabilities of anaerobic retaining compounds if you’d consider them. The joints can be configured at diameters and lengths to get plenty of area so shear stresses remain far below the retaining compound capability.

It would be bad news for the micoscopic welder, let’s hope he won in LV. 

Another option is 2% silver bearing soft solder. It’s shear strength is overkill for the job and it flows below the 4140 HT tempering temperature.

Or, drill and tap for setscrews axially at the joints to mimic the Monarch technique on all those plugs and bushings. 

11-20-2009, 05:27 PM – beckley23

Dave,
I had already considered the options you mentioned, but the welder said he would do them as a courtesy. Besides I got another little job for him, that is below. BTW, he wouldn’t tell me if he won, or lost, but I think it’s the latter.Peter,
Monarch may have the gears, but I don’t want to hear the price.

Bottom of the apron oil pump. Note the holes in the shroud and the corrossion around the edge. Anybody got any ideas on what caused this, I sure don’t.

Busied myself, in between jobs, finishing up the handwheel rebuild. I’ve finished shaping the welds around the hub, and working the wheel welds. The spoke in the center was completely missing, and the replacement is 6061-T6. It is also a bit crooked.

The other side.

Drill the hole for the handle, and a little paint, and you would have hard time telling this was 4 pieces.

Harry

11-20-2009, 06:00 PM – DWRoller 

Some of the parts you’ve shown in pictures look like they’ve had water on them to me. I’d say that little shroud proves it. It wouldn’t take long to make those holes if it sat idle after someone pressure washed it at some point, e.g.- to sell it.

Danny

11-20-2009, 08:36 PM – beckley23 

That the machine was exposed to moisture, condensation most likely, is unquestioned, but I can almost guarantee that pressure washing wasn’t involved. With the exception of getting the motor overhauled, the rest of the electricals weren’t touched except to reconnect some transformers, and the machine ran when tested a few weeks ago. In addition the inside of the headstock was extremely clean, and I could see no evidence of moisture contamination in the rest of the headstock/gearbox areas.
The machine sat in a metal sided building for at least 6 years, on a gravel floor about 10-15 feet from the door. It was never hooked up.
Harry

11-21-2009, 10:33 AM – Toms Wheels 

The damage of the gears and pickup all look like moisture. Since the headstock inside looked good, and that non-sealing chrome plug on the headstock shows it was not washed or left in the weather. It would seem the water was from the oil put into the apron as lube. How many times have you seen oil drums lined up by the back door of a shop. Pumps screwed into the bung hole, and the little plug off or loose. All this maintained by the shopboy. Rainwater ran into the drum, then pumped into the apron.

During the restoration of a 31′ chev. When I pulled the oil pan it had about 2″ deep sludge covering the bottom. After cleaning there had to be 100+ pinholes in the bottom. The dipstick had shown full, the car had been sitting for 35 years, no leaks. The water collected under the sludge and rusted right through.

11-21-2009, 03:00 PM – Cal Haines  

Quote Originally Posted by Toms Wheels View Post
The damage of the gears and pickup all look like moisture. Since the headstock inside looked good, and that non-sealing chrome plug on the headstock shows it was not washed or left in the weather. It would seem the water was from the oil put into the apron as lube. How many times have you seen oil drums lined up by the back door of a shop. Pumps screwed into the bung hole, and the little plug off or loose. All this maintained by the shopboy. Rainwater ran into the drum, then pumped into the apron. …

That makes sense.

My 10EE also had evidence of about 1″ of water in the apron sump. No coolant on the machine and no evidence of water exposure elsewhere (with the exception of the cavities in the bottom of the taper attachment casting.

Cal

11-23-2009, 04:58 PM – beckley23

While waiting to get a reply on the availibility of apron gears from an aquaintance, I cleaned up the cross slide and the handwheel assembly. This lathe is going from bad to worse, in so far as rust damaged gears are concerned. The telescoping cross slide gear is also bad. That should be very interesting.
BTW, the gears aren’t available, so it’s on to plan B.
I also started scraping the flat slides of the cross slide, at least this is going fast. The following picture is the 6th spotting. There is a deep gouge on the headstock side flat slide, that I don’t think I’ll be able to completely eliminate without taking a substantial amount of material off. There is about a 1/16″ of slide outboard of the gouge that I’m going to try and take advantage of. This is an area where the clearances are limited, and the less taken off the better. Once the slides are finished, I’ll grind the top of the cross slide. This is the first time I’ve seen oil grooves in the flat slides.

Harry

11-24-2009, 06:20 PM – beckley23

Plan B is to make the gears, and I spent some time today locating some gear cutters. More on that later.
Finished up the cross slide. The remnant of the deep gouge is in the upper right corner. It goes to just shy of the second vertical oil groove. Originally it was about twice as long. There is a small border, that will hopefully keep stuff out, once the wiper is in place.
The top before grinding. The original owners did a lot of compound swiveling, the groove doesn’t say much about their maintenance.

Ground the top and both sides. Got rid of the wear ring, but my wheel needed dressing, or I needed a different wheel. I’ll see if stone the lines down a bit.

The compound rest taken apart. The 2 gib screws are to the left of the feed screw. Note the thinness of the screw head on the right. The position of the gib in the top slide is approx where I found it. The original owners of compensating for wear was to thin the screw head and have the head of the opposing screw bear against the side of the gib. If the gib is correctly positioned, it needs to be approx .030-.060″ thicker.
Note the head of the screw in the feed handle. No holes for a pin spanner, or slot for a screw driver. I was able to get it out with a pair of pliers.
I’ve seen bonehead repairs before, but I think these deserve a some type of award.

The compound’s swivel slide.

Despite the wear ring and bonehead repairs, the compound rest is in fairly decent condition as far as indicator checks go, so far.
Harry

11-25-2009, 05:58 PM – beckley23

The first 2 pictures are of a scraping situation that arises/occurs as scraping progresses. I don’t recall if Connelly mentions this in MTR. It is; not enough spotting medium on the surface plate, straight edge, or whatever one uses to spot, in essense giving erroneous spotting, which I usually associate with to much medium and smearing. IME, it always occurs extremely close to finish.
In the first picture, and I’ve posed the top slide spotted slide’s next to the spotting medium on the surface plate. Due to the location of the surface plate in a poorly lit section of the shop, I have a very hard time judging the distribution, and density, of the medium on the plate. I did move the plate for these pictures. So after the previous spotting, which showed a very nice distribution of spots, I reworked the medium on the plate and spotted the slides again with 2 very short strokes, flipped it over and saw about half of what you are seeing. What you are seeing is when I used a very large circular stroke, approx 2″, and re-did the spotting and picked up some of the thicker medium, and that is the result. Got out the “tenth” indicator and started checking. Checked a blued spot and then checked an area next to it. If the needle moved, it was hard to tell. Did this in several spots, and the needle did move, barely, in a few areas, but never more than half a division.
In the second picture, I’ve applied more medium to the plate, a bit too much as it turned out, but this a more realistic picture of the surfaces. The slides were finished in 3 more cycles.

I have stoned the top slide’s ways to highlight the diagonal “stripes” in the ways. The stripes, or lack of a better term, are oil pockets, and look like they were made with a cold chisel. The surface texture leaves a lot to be desired, although the stripes are approx.001″ deep. The only other lathe I’ve seem something similar is my 16″ CY, and the are round dimples.
Also, a good arguement can be made for washers under the T bolt nuts.

The top slide’s nut is solid, but has anyone ever seen 2 taper pins in their nut, and what is their purpose. The pins are approx 1/16″ below the major diameter of the threaded hole.

Harry

11-25-2009, 06:26 PM – DaveE907

My compound nut (1952) did not have taper pins in it. I have no idea what purpose yours were intended for.

My compound base was knackered by the nuts too. It took about .015 to clean up both ears using a boring head to match the radius. The compound was fitted with thin hardened AN washers under new high quality hardened nuts with proper washer faces.

11-29-2009, 08:42 AM – beckley23

The work on the compound rest assembly has been, mostly, completed. The flat ways and slides were scraped, the dovetails weren’t. I may scrape in few oil pockets, but really don’t see the need. I did spot a couple of the surfaces, and they are flat.
The gib was the bigger problem. It was a badly fitted replacement, I could tell by the saw cuts on each end. If this was an original, it would have fit much better; as it was, I added a 3/64″ shim made from A-2 precision ground flat stock. The shim was pinned using 3/16″ drill rod. I pinned the gib and shim, to keep the shim from moving when turning the handle. The shim was pinned on the fixed side of the gib, whose big end was worn by the screw.
The handle screw, without holes, or slot, was re-worked. It was shortened, a shoulder removed, holes added, and head radiused. It is 3XX SS, not surprising since the original owners worked mostly SS.
I reassembled the compound rest, and bench tested it. There doesn’t seem to be shake, and very minimal screw backlash, and no binding when turning the screw.
You can see the dowel pin ends on the sliding side of the gib. I have also counterbored the screw holes, using an end mill, in the rest’s bottom.
The other side of the shim. You can tell where the pins were ground flush.

The re-worked handle screw.

Harry

11-29-2009, 11:49 AM – Cal Haines

Harry,

Very nice work, as always.

Were the pins for gib shim held by a press fit, Locktite, or some other method?

What was the reason for counterboring the holes in the rest bottom casting?

Cal

11-29-2009, 03:03 PM – beckley23

The drill rod was polished down to about .1870″ and are a press fit. The two pieces were stacked and clamped on a subplate on the mill table, the holes were drilled using a #19 drill bit and reamed using a .1860″ reamer. I gauged the holes at approx .1865-.1867″.
The holes in the slide base were counterbored to get rid of the chewing they took from the nuts. I’ll make up a couple of thin 4140PH washers and use them under the nuts. If past history is anything to go on, I don’t make use of the top slide, except when I’m using the TA.
Harry

11-29-2009, 06:32 PM – ramsay1

Talking Compound Gears

Quote Originally Posted by beckley23 View Post
Each gear of the compound gears will be made separately, and then welded together. I’ve got to check with the fellow that does microscopic welding to make sure this is feasible. He’s in Las Vegas right now. I hope he wins, maybe he’ll be inclined to take it easy on the pricing.
I’ve also heard about a few possible sources for the gears that I’ll check into, although I’m more inclined to make them.On another issue, I need a dimension in the apron pump assembly, if anybody has their pump out for servicing. The dimension I need is from the shoulder to the bottom of the ball end of the “piston” for the pump’s bronze cam follower. The ball has eroded away, or was badly repaired, as you can tell from the picture below. I believe it’s about 1.632″, but would like confirmation.

Harry

Hello: Just a note… I made some compound gears for a LeBlond lathe one time.. I attached them by pressing together then drilled and tapped the parting line where they are pressed together and put set screws in.. Once you bottom out the setscrews, the gears cannot move in any direction as half of the threads on each gear are engaged with the setscrew.. I think I used three setscrews in each compound gear.. Mike

12-01-2009, 05:58 PM – beckley23

I thought about the set screw solution, along with a couple others. The set screws would definitely work on one set, but the other set would have a very thin wall section that would be iffy. The other solutions are Loctite and welding. Since I have to get the shroud on the oil pump welded, I could kill two birds with one stone. For the time being I’m back to Plan A, I’ve located a set of gears.

Counterboring the holes in the slide base with an end mill wasn’t such a hot idea. I forgot about the axial relief in the end mill, the washer rock a little, so I’ll have to get a proper counterbore, or figure something else out.
When I bench tested the compound rest assembly the other day, I didn’t have it totally assembled. Once totally assembled, the screw did bind. That problem was corrected by milling the nut slot approx .015″ deeper. Surprisingly, I didn’t have to touch the dovetails. The BXA toolpost has been fitted with a new T bolt. All that needs to be done is painting, and the assembly is complete.

Turned my attention to the carriage. All of the steel oil lines were plugged, or had holes in them. They got removed, and I’ll salvage the compression sleeves and replace everything else. There are 2 sizes of tubing, 5/32″ and 3/32″. I’ve got the 3/32″ in copper, but my question is; what are the pros/cons steel vs copper. I do know one con for steel; it rusts, and I do use a water based coolant.

The dental scaler is in one of the multitude of holes in the oil line feeding the front V slide, plus the manifold feed line also had a few holes.

The entire carriage oil system is out, along with the cross feed screw’s seal, which got destroyed during the extraction. Tried getting the seal out from the rear, but would up tearing the side up. Finally used a 1-1/8″ drill bit to snag it from the front, easy job.

Finally, I had to check the inside flat slide on the bed. It’s not supposed to bear, but the .0015″ shim isn’t going anywhere. I need to get a dimension from the bottom of the carriage to the leadscrew, so that I can determine the amount to mill off the slides for the Multifil 426 bearing material.

Harry

12-02-2009, 09:22 AM – Cal Haines

Quote Originally Posted by beckley23 View Post

Counterboring the holes in the slide base with an end mill wasn’t such a hot idea. I forgot about the axial relief in the end mill, the washer rock a little, so I’ll have to get a proper counterbore, or figure something else out.

I guess the easiest thing to do at this point would be to make new washers that have a slightly concave bottom?

Quote Originally Posted by beckley23 View Post

Turned my attention to the carriage. All of the steel oil lines were plugged, or had holes in them. They got removed, and I’ll salvage the compression sleeves and replace everything else. There are 2 sizes of tubing, 5/32″ and 3/32″. I’ve got the 3/32″ in copper, but my question is; what are the pros/cons steel vs copper. I do know one con for steel; it rusts, and I do use a water based coolant.

I tried to salvage one of the 5/32″ compression sleeves with no luck. I doubt it can be done without sacrificing the tubing (which was and issue for me, but is not for you). If I was going to try it again I would cut the tubing flush on one side and ~1/8″ on the other. I would then try to press them off using the arbor press and a pin for the top, plate with hole on the bottom. You would then need to resize the sleeve the way a jeweler resizes a ring. All in all a lot of work!

I think you would be better off to get new sleeves from Bijur. They also have the 5/32″ tubing. The copper-plated steel tubing on my ’43 (no coolant) is still serviceable. I think new steel tubing will outlast us both. I’ve looked all over for 5/32″ copper tubing and could not find a source.

Cal

12-02-2009, 09:35 AM – Cal Haines

I forgot to mention something else. While I had my saddle off I installed ball oilers on each end of the flat and V ways as a backup in case the pumped lube system fails again at an inopportune time. (Every time I mention this I get flamed—It’s fine to completely change the drive system, but to modify the lube system is blasphemy!) I also put small ball oilers on the saddle wiper caps for the tailstock flat way. My saddle has worn to the point that it’s bearing on the tailstock way.

The next time I get a chance I will add backup ball oilers for the cross-slide and compound as well.

Cal

12-02-2009, 09:52 AM – Wildcattle

Quote Originally Posted by Cal Haines View Post
I’ve looked all over for 5/32″ copper tubing and could not find a source.

Cal,
I found the 3/32″ and 5/32″ copper tubing on Ebay, and my local Orchard Supply store carries them as well, as I found out later.
WC

12-02-2009, 05:25 PM – rke[pler

Quote Originally Posted by Cal Haines View Post
I guess the easiest thing to do at this point would be to make new washers that have a slightly concave bottom?

I was going to suggest that Harry scrape the counterbore flat, but I think your solution is more practical. 

I tried to salvage one of the 5/32″ compression sleeves with no luck. I doubt it can be done without sacrificing the tubing (which was and issue for me, but is not for you). If I was going to try it again I would cut the tubing flush on one side and ~1/8″ on the other. I would then try to press them off using the arbor press and a pin for the top, plate with hole on the bottom. You would then need to resize the sleeve the way a jeweler resizes a ring. All in all a lot of work!

You really can’t salvage the compression olive, not without spening more time that you would just turning a few out on a lathe. I’d just replace them (Tractor Supply has ’em? I never would have guessed).

I think you would be better off to get new sleeves from Bijur. They also have the 5/32″ tubing. The copper-plated steel tubing on my ’43 (no coolant) is still serviceable. I think new steel tubing will outlast us both. I’ve looked all over for 5/32″ copper tubing and could not find a source.

As I recall I got the 3/32 and 5/32 both with a dozen olives (what the copper ferrules are called in compression plumbing, oddly enough) from General Bearing in LA; this back when I rebuilt my saddle. I think that new steel tubing might last another 50 years, but I went for the good stuff and put in copper (it also kinks less on bending, at least with my hands).

12-02-2009, 06:18 PM – beckley23

I should have said the “threaded compression fitting”, compression sleeves I’ll buy. Tried to salvage those one time, 20 years ago, never again.
Talked to Monarch today, still waiting for the prices. I asked about copper and steel tubing, they only handle copper, that problem is solved.
I spent some time today figuring out the sequence for reconditioning the cross slide ways. There are several issues here concerning clearances; for the chip shield and cross slide in relation to the top of the carriage dovetail, and the clearance for the TA drawbar. There isn’t a lot of room in any of these clearances, and everything has to function smoothly. A lot will depend on how much scraping has to be done to the ways, and from what I could tell it isn’t going to be much, maybe a thou or two. I got into some issues when I redid the CK a few years ago, and also some with the SE 60, just recently, in this area and don’t care to repeat them. I may, in the end, have to add some clearances, but I want to minimize the amount of work.I’ve got to drill out the bad screw for the chip shield, on top of the dovetail, I might as well drill and tap the hole for extended FR, while the carriage is set up. Using a transfer punch to spot the hole.

Couldn’t drill out the screw, even with carbide, so I drilled a new hole approx 1/4″ in front of the existing hole. The holes look like a couple dark spots, due to the camera angle.

Checking the clearance in the cross slide/dovetail. It’s tight, the HS side is .002″, the TS side is .004″. What I’ll do here, sooner or later, is take a cut to reduce the dovetail height, and then grind the TA drawbar, and should resolve the clearance issues.

Harry

12-03-2009, 05:42 PM – beckley23

Spent some time “chasing my tail”, and wound up touching up the straight edge and the cross slide’s slides, and all is better. Then checked the cross slide’s clearance on the ways, and decided to take about .010″ off the top of the dovetails, to avoid any future problems. The ways seem to be harder than the bed ways, and the heat treat seems to be more eradic than what I experienced on the bed ways. I think I’ve found a few areas on the TS side where there are soft spots surrounded by hard. It is not going to be easy dealing with these inconsistencies.

All the other oil groove patterns I’ve seem, were symetrical, for lack of a better term, than what I see on the cross slide’s slides and the ways. After thinking about it, I concluded that oil distribution was the reason. I think this picture explains it.

Both cross slide flat ways were spotted with the straight edge, and the blueing wiped off, and spotted using the cross slide, with an exaggerated stroke. There is quite a bit of false spotting, as expected. That spotting was wiped off, and then spotted using approx 1/2″ stroke. The last spotting was scraped. The difference in the spotting on the guided side in the 1st 2 pictures is due to the fact that the straight edge was on the section where the gib is, and that section is slightly higher. The next 3 pictures are in sequence.

As mentioned earlier, I milled off approx .010″ from the dovetail top for clearance purposes. If you look closely at the upper edge(HS side), approx from the front end of the nut slot, there is a slightly different color to the cast iron. The brighter color is the extent of the heat treat. The 2 yellow dots are brass plugs, for when the oil galleys were drilled.

12-13-2009, 12:04 PM – beckley23

Over the past few days, I’ve been working on completing the scraping of the cross slide ways. The erratic heat treat on the TS side of the flat ways has been giving me fits. There is no clear boundary between the hard and soft areas, no reference point that I can say the hard is here, and the soft is there, and be prepared for it. It more, or less, just pops out that this is hard, or soft, and all of a sudden I have to compensate, but it’s too late. I got to a point where I was getting relatively good distribution of spotting, although not the desired bearing area, that I said enough is enough, and this is what I’m going with. I did run a few indicator checks between the high and low spots, after spotting, and the reading differentials where very minor, 1-3 tenths, that helped confirm my decision. The HS side was much more consistent in hardness throughout, and the bearing area is much improved. There are some other factors that caused some minor problems; the entire edge on both sides is soft for approx 1/8″ width, and the area in the intersection of the flat and dovetail faces seems to be softer. The oil grooves also where also an issue. The only face that still needs scraping is the guided dovetail(gib side), then completion of the dovetails slides of the cross slide, then I can get to the carriage slides. The pictures of the completed flat ways didn’t load into the computer the other day(computer problems), and I’ll try to retake them soon. I have some money jobs, and they take priority.
Anyway, here are some pictures that will help explain some of the above.Illustrating the erratic heat treat on the TS side of the flat cross slide way. The shiny areas are hard, the blackened areas are soft, and there is a darkened spot, the dot, above the second horizontal oil groove.

The next 5 pictures are of the guiding dovetail scraping sequence. The first two helped me determine that the angle straigh edge needed a bit of “tuning up”, the 3rd is after “tuning up”, and about the 3rd scraping cycle..
Spotted with the cross slide;

Spotted with the angle straight edge;

About the 3rd scraping cycle after tuning up;

Several cycles later. You will start to notice what appears to be smearing. It’s not smearing, those areas are flat high spots from the stoning I do after the scraping.

Two cycles later, The vertical stripes are reflections of the oil grooves in the flat way. The brass plug to the left in the inside flat slide in the carriage bridge is plugging the drilled hole for the oil galley from the pump.

Just an aside. This is the second set of hardened cross slide ways I’ve scraped. The first was my other EE, it wasn’t pleasant work then, and even less so now. I have been dreading this part, since this restoration began, and thankfully it’s almost over. Next time, if there is a next time, I’m looking for a grinder. This same section on the SE 60, was a piece of cake.
Harry

12-14-2009, 04:56 PM – beckley23

Did a couple more scraping cycles on the flat cross slide ways, and things much improved. The HS side is much better than it looks, and the TS side is a lot better than it was. The picture is the final spotting for the first section, the length of the cross slide, and the last 1-3/4″, or so, was finished up shortly afterwards.
The picture is a little out of focus, or I moved, but this is the 2nd spotting of the guided dovetail way. The spotting is very consistent with what the indicator readings showed. There is approx .001″ to remove on the right, and approx .0005″ on the left. Because the original surfaces where ground, the intersection of the dovetail and the flat faces have a slight radius. This was giving some real interesting spotting, mainly a thin line at the top, until I relieved the intersection with a thin cut off wheel and a die grinder.

Harry

12-15-2009, 12:19 AM – rimcanyon

Harry, you seem to be making a lot of progress lately. What major tasks still remain?

The ball has eroded away, or was badly repaired, as you can tell from the picture below. I believe it’s about 1.632″, but would like confirmation.

I have a couple of the pump actuator arms that are NOS, left from GE Nuclear’s parts bins. If you want one let me know and I will mail it to you.

-Dave

12-15-2009, 08:54 AM – daryl bane

Ahh, this brings back memories, I am glad I am not having to do it again. 

12-15-2009, 05:31 PM – beckley23

Dave,
Still got to finish up the entire carriage and apron, which should be relatively easy, at least it’s going to be easier than scraping the cross slide ways, and then there is the tailstock. I picked up an “old” height TS shortly before I broke for the SE 60, mainly to get the top casting, and mate it to the “Wreck’s” bottom. I was casually checking the 2 TSs a few days ago, and I may be OK with the original, but I’ll have to see the tale the Intramik tells. Either way there will be a new spindle made, as both of them are bad.
Appreciate your offer on the plunger, and I may take you up, but I’ve made arrangements for the entire pump assembly.
Harry

12-24-2009, 01:43 PM – beckley23

Finally got the guided dovetail side done, or maybe more appropriately decided enough was enough. The spotted bearing area isn’t the best, but after many hours of not being able to see what I was doing, my shoulders and arms were about to fall off. It is parallel to the guiding side within .0002-.0003″, and the difference between the high and low spots is about the same.
On to the cross slide’s slides. This is the second spotting of the guiding dovetail slide. This is being scraped by hand. Tried the BIAX in there, but hand scraping here is far easier. Wished I could have done hand scraping on the hardened ways, but that would have taken much, much longer. This did get scraped this AM, and spotted agian. It’s almost done.

Harry

12-28-2009, 05:13 PM – beckley23

A few more cycles after this spotting the guiding dovetail slide was completed.
Almost done with the gib. I’m using an .018 block out shim to keep the gib within the confines of the cross slide. When it’s finished in a few more cycles, I’ll re-examine the shim thickness, but I think it will have to be thinner. As it is now, the front sdjusting screw will be projecting to far out of the cross slide. The one oddity I discovered today, is the screws are different, the front is 1/4-20, the rear one is 10-24. I haven’t checked the parts sheet yet to see if this is correct. It doesn’t seem to make any difference, and that still doesn’t change the fact that I seem to have lost it.

Harry

12-28-2009, 06:30 PM – DaveE907

FWIW the cross slide gib screws in my 10 EE are the same as yours, 1/4-20 and 10-24. Your data point makes me feel better, it seemed odd to me too.

Will you fix the shim to the gib or leave it loose?

12-28-2009, 08:20 PM – beckley23

Dave,
As it stands now, I will leave the shim loose. It will be between the gib and the cross slide. I was checking how much of the smaller screw would be in contact with the end of the gib, and it looks like enough, but the gib screw heads will have to stay totally within the confines of the cross slide. I spent some time looking at this situation today. I was trying to decide whether to glue on some Multifil and scrape half of it away, or just do what I plan on doing above. “Above” won out.
BTW, thanks for confirming the oddity.
Harry

12-28-2009, 08:58 PM – DaveE907

Thanks for the reply Harry, I would opt to shim the gib also. Bonding such a shim to the gib prevents the shim from sliding down and contacting the flat way. I’ve seen steel shims used unbonded and gouging the lower flat way.

12-28-2009, 09:18 PM – Cal Haines

Quote Originally Posted by DaveE907 View Post
… I would opt to shim the gib also. Bonding such a shim to the gib prevents the shim from sliding down and contacting the flat way. I’ve seen steel shims used unbonded and gouging the lower flat way.

Would Loc-Tite work to bond the shim to the gib?

Cal

12-29-2009, 10:06 AM – DaveE907

Cal, hope Harry forgives me, I don’t want to hijack his thread. 

Threadlocker Loctite products won’t work here.

Loctite Black Max 380 works well for the job. It’s a rubber toughened cyanoacrylate adhesive and it takes a bit of time to cure, it’s not an instant bond adhesive. Quickly clamp the gib and shim between full length ground steel bars to make the bond with a uniform thin bondline. Paste wax is an effective mold release.